What do you guys think would be a more hardcore untwinked friendly build? I know Zerk can be really safe if you use your war cries correctly, but whirlwind seems a little more appealing just for the fact that it isn't, sit in one place and hack and slash a group of 50 monsters one at a time.
If i end up going with zerk i plan on putting some points into frenzy just so that i can hit extremely fast. I know i could go with w/s or just 2-h but i think i'm pretty content with using 2 1-H weapons for really fast zerk. I tried it out in single play and liked it above 2-h or w/s.
Thanks in advance :]|||Prior to 1.13, I would say untwinked WW is a bad idea because of the need for a good weapon, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to find the runes for a decent runeword now.
That said, I think Berserk would be safer. Single target lets you play careful and slow, and make good use of your warcries. Its the skill I would choose.
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I know i could go with w/s or just 2-h but i think i'm pretty content with using 2 1-H weapons for really fast zerk.
Berserk will only use 1 weapon to attack even if you are dual wielding. I have no idea how it interacts with Frenzy, but I doubt it is worth the loss of a shield on a HC untwinked character.|||I personally prefer to not use a shield when using berserk. I know i could only use 1 of the weapons for berserking. I would have 2 weapons to get the frenzy going and then use the speed that i get from frenzy to get zerk up to insane speeds.
I have a question though, would i be able to propel past the fastest frames per attack that berserk has set for it if i use Frenzy before zerking? My guess is no. But the way i see it, even if i am still stuck at the fastest frame attack possible, i don't have to search for a fast weapon to zerk with. I could rely on Frenzy to get the speed up to max zerking speed with a powerful weapon, since slower weapons are generally more powerful.
Would this be a worth while build to do? and how would it be set up?
Thanks for you help! :]|||Nope, frenzy won't get you past the 9 frame zerk limit. I think it'll work nicely, but if it doesn't you can always respec to WW or w/e. Looking at the skills quickly, I would probably max frenzy, zerk, BO and shout, with a couple of points into a weap mastery.
While it's true that zerk forces you to play more safely, there's nothing keeping your from using WW in the same way. It mostly comes down to what you'll enjoy more.|||Hmm. well, i started the barb today and he is Lvl 22 in act 2 normal. So i'll be getting Frenzy soon. I've personally never been too big of a fan of melee characters but i think this will be fun. Thanks for the help :]|||I think using Frenzy in the end won't give you much. You lose time by charging it up and must use a one-hander (or are you gong to use a two-hander on switch?). Certainly untwinked, damage wise a 9fpa one-hander is only as good as a 16-18 fpa two hander, which is what you get by default from a -10 or 0 WSM weapon.
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While it's true that zerk forces you to play more safely, there's nothing keeping your from using WW in the same way. It mostly comes down to what you'll enjoy more.
It is not that Zerk forces a safe way of playing, it is that WW requires much more care than Zerk to play safely. Zerk won't lock you any longer than a single attack, while if you misclick a WW there is nothing you can do till you stop whirling.|||I don't know, imo if you play carefully WW is the safest thing there is. You're constantly attacking and therefore leeching, you can't be interrupted by any attack and you're constantly moving which means some melee and almost all missiles attacks will miss. Being committed until your whirl ends is perhaps a problem, but if you keep your whirls short (which'll be beneficial in any case if you've got a slow weap) and whirl on the periphery of packs that's not an issue.
Some also say you need a decent weapon for WW more so than for any other attack, and I don't get that. Double swing's inherent IAS bonus makes it great for the early-game, but other than that I don't see why zerk/conc/frenzy can make better use of crappy weapons.
I'm fairly sure there's a frenzy/zerk write-up somewhere on the forums (prob in SP forum). Maybe I'm thinking of the frenzied zealbarbs...|||i'll be using 2 1-H weapons. No switching. But i think how effective it will be all depends on how slow my weapon really is. If it is normal attack speed, i don't think it would be all that effective. but if i'm using a beafy very slow/slow weapon with high damage, then i think it would improve. Charging up really doesn't take all that long. I could even have really fast weapons on switch to charge up quickly.
I personally think i like whirlwind more than zerk and i do agree that i feel it can be very safe at times. It all just depends on how you use it. if i went whirlwind, would it be better (with hardcore untwinked in mind) to use a pole arm, spear, staff, w/w, or w/s?|||Quote:
I don't see why zerk/conc/frenzy can make better use of crappy weapons.
Level 20 WW gives 102% enhanced damage. Level 20 Berserk gives 435% enhanced damage unsynergised. 835% enhanced damage fully synergised. Also most enemies don't have a lot of magic resistance compared to physical. Frenzy and conc aren't that great without good weapons, though.
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if i went whirlwind, would it be better (with hardcore untwinked in mind) to use a pole arm, spear, staff, w/w, or w/s?
Going untwinked, you are really at the mercy of what you find. If it were me, I'd hunt for the runes for Oath or Crescent moon, and put them in the fastest 2h base item I could find.|||Even at berserk's 835%, i still feel that WW's 102% is faster just for the fact that it is AOE.
Although, WW is very item dependant. Berserk isn't much different though.
I wouldn't be using Frenzy for killing. I would only use it to charge up and i don't want to touch Conc.
Those items could be a possibility. But if i put them in a fast 2H then i may as well go with whirlwind. Just seems more logical.
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